Barb Downey wrote:
[private communication]
Good Afternoon Ms Downey,
Thanks for your reply and comment.
I note that you picked up my comments from Black Ink. There has been
quite a discussion on the Grasers Edge group resulting from my
questions. Your question has prompted me to compile them for anyone who
is interested. Most refer, however, to dairy cattle and horses.
The link to insulin resistance, which comes up quite often, was a new
one to me.
They are seen below.
Regards
Ross Gould, P.Ag.
Calgary, Alberta
===========================
1. Interesting laminitis is being discussed - one of my dairy grazers
has experienced laminitis
for the first time in 3 yrs of grazing - seems worse in holsteins than
jerseys - they have been
on brown mid rib sorghum-sudangrass (first yr where the SS has been all
BMR variety) since 16
June - their palour feed (balanced for 65 lbs milk) is 20 lbs/hd of a
19% CP with energy
balanced for an assumed .63 NEL sorghum-sudangrass. This hasn't changed
much from palour feed
fed the past 2 yrs. The cattle have shown tender feet for the past
month. The only difference
this season on sorghum-sudangrass is the rainy, overcast weather up
until about a month ago
when we started receiving normal summer weather (lots of sunshine and
little rainfall). Has
anyone else seen a difference in this yr over past yrs as to laminitis?
2. Ross- for sure, I don't know! But laminitis (which is proven to be
triggered in both cattle and horses by a sudden flush of high energy
feed)
and cracked hooves are likely two totally different problems.
In horses, biotin can change the hooves on a horse with chronic soft,
cracking and chipping hooves by an amazing degree. Of course, it takes
the
several months for the hooves to grow completely out before you see the
full benefits, but I've seen it change a horse which could only be
ridden
on turf to one which could hold shoes on for 8 weeks without ever
loosening
one.
I suspect that, absent other symptoms of acidosis or changes in the hoof
structure, including "Aladdin's slipper" hoof growth over several years,
the cracked hoof problem is a deficiency of some sort. But keep in mind,
that often an excess of a trace nutrient will cause similar symptoms as
the
deficiency. Which is where labs probably shine!
Brittle hooves can also be an environmental problem- extremely dry
weather
with no moisture for them to walk in.
Nothing more complicated- or interesting- than nutrition and all it's
interwoven effects.
3. es. Zinc is very important in glucose metabolism. Is being used
heavily in supplements directed to horses with metabolic problems.
> Another study suggested that it was more common in cows who had
grown
> too fast when young or were carrying too much weight at maturity.
This is a description of conditions that create insulin resistance.
www.animal.ufl.edu/extension/ dairy/Pubs/PDFs/chromiub.pdf
This paper says confirms that insulin resistance is also a problem in
the cattle industry. Chromium is another supplement being more
widely used by the horse industry. In fact, I'm learning a LOT about
how to deal with my insulin resistant horses from gleaning
information from the cattle industry.
Recent growth chamber studies at USDA show brome grass accumulates
Total Nonstructural Carb content (sugar, starch and fructans) of 48%
dry matter after 21 days of cold treatment. Is this too much for a
cow?
In my opinion, the forage researchers may have overshot their mark
in improving carb content of forage grasses. Perhaps time to focus
on things like improved mineral content, or higher anti-oxidants.
Lot's of other improvement to be made. Perhaps our horses are the
canaries in the mine?
Katy
www.safergrass.org
4. Are they seeing hoof wall separation or laminitis right at the edge
of
the hoof wall - just pin point dark spots lines that seem to lead
nowhere? I'd think about rumen acidosis - but I would also think that
the problem as seen is something that has been going on for several
months - so they'd need to go back over their test records and see what
the trend is in fat and protein. And look at the ration at least as it
is on paper.
I had a couple of herds where the first signs were hoof wall tenderness
and pin point abcesses/ blood (died). One went on to invert the bulk
tank, not just someof the cows. That was not my fault. I suggested a
change and they chose to go with someone else's suggestion.
the other question would be are there breeding problems - cows appear as
if they are pregnant - o return heat after ervice but then are open on
preg check before 42 days? You can check them before the 21 day mark if
you are careful to see if the ovaries are "feeling" pregnant or feeling
as if they are about to come into heat.
Elisabeth Faulkner
emfaulkner@earthlink.net
Scottsville, Virginia
5. Keenan,
I believe that the change in environmental conditions to sunny
weather had a large impact on the amount of Non Structural Carbs.
Dairy One (my favorite lab) has just put up a database of 3 years of
forage testing, which includes sugar and starch. It's an amazing
amount of information.
Go to: http://www.dairyone.com/Forage/FeedComp/disclaimer.asp
enter 'fresh' and go to the data for sorg/sud and sudan, etc. The
range for fresh sorghum NSC content is wide.... up to 29% NSC. As a
C4 plant, it will get highest under max sunshine.
Would very much like to see a test done on sugar content of this
forage. Fresh samples need to be sent frozen to stop respiratory
losses of sugars so the test is accurate as to what is actually
grazed.
Katy
www.safergrass.org
6. Elisabeth,
This is facinating. The horses get sore within 48 hours of a higher
sugar feed change. Then we see a ring show up in the hoof that we
can track. Horses feet take 9-12 months to grow out completely. How
long does it take a cow foot to show blood spots?
Many of these horses that end up being insulin resistant share the
symptoms of being laminitic AND hard to settle. And there are breed
tendancies. There's about 900 of us now on the Equine Cushings list
on Yahoo. A a lot of vets tend to call any horse with a metabolic
problem 'Cushings' for lack of a better diagnosis, and a LOT of them
just end up being insulin resistant if proper diagnostic testing is
performed. There's current research being done, calling it 'Equine
Metabolic Syndrome' and comparing it to human metabolic syndrome,
with it's polycystic ovary symptoms linked to insulin resistance.
There's a paper from Dr. Johnson at Missouri State on my website in
Articles. Insulin resistance is difinately becoming a growing
problem in horses today. I know a lot of it is due to 'Good Mommy
Syndrome', but I have also seen a strong relationship between people
planting improved grass varieties. Did it myself, and now I'm mowing
Regar Brome half to death to allow common bluegrass to take over my
paddock. Am allowing the Paddock Brome/Garrison Foxtail paddock to
mature and stockpile for winter grazing after it's dead. The
definition of the Best Grass is based on fattening cattle and
producing milk. This needs to change for horse pasture.
Katy
www.safergrass.org
7. t 01:07 AM 8/31/03 +0000, you wrote:
>In my opinion, the forage researchers may have overshot their mark
>in improving carb content of forage grasses. Perhaps time to focus
>on things like improved mineral content, or higher anti-oxidants.
>Lot's of other improvement to be made. Perhaps our horses are the
>canaries in the mine?
>Katy
>www.safergrass.org
I know Barrenburg was recommending a mix of high sugar grass, an
aggressive
clover (protein) and a forb like chicory and dandy lions. Perhaps the
goals should be shooting for a package of forages rather than trying to
get
a perfected mono culture. They also wanted farmers to look at fertility
more broadly than NPK, with Ca, S and Mg being critical for good rye
grass
and traces being critical for god nutrition. I also know there is quite
a
bit of interest in Cr supplements for human diabetics.
Mark P. Ludwig
Poultry Research Lab
University of Wisconsin -Madison
608-262-1730 WK
608-846-7125 HM
8. I am always surprised to read about cracked and other hoof problems
which used to be a problem before Cowmats and Hoofmats became
available and have been sold internationally for decades.
They are made of strong plastic material and hold water with copper
sulphate if hoof infections are a problem or zinc sulphate if hooves
just need hardening to reduce cracking and future infections, and
placed where cows can walk over them on the way into the shed, dairy,
parlour. The product then soaks in to hooves during milking.
For beef they would need to sit on a piece of ply and be placed in a
narrowed gateway entering the paddock (not the exit one to a muddy
lane which would reduce the effect of the chemical) and them moved on
a carry tray to the next gate.
See the following sites for suppliers closest to you.
www.sweetmans.co.nz
www.shoof.co.nz
